Discuție:CS Știința Bacău

I am a bit confused about the different sections of CS Știința Bacău. The club itself is according to https://csmbacau.ro founded 2010, but the different sections have an impressive history (with national championships etc) before that. Were they part of the same club before that as well? Or were they different clubs that merged in 2010? (planning to write about the club for Swedish Wikipedia and want to get things right) Gunnar Larsson (discuție) 5 februarie 2022 20:23 (EET)

@Gunnar Larsson: Former club CS Știința Bacău and the new one are different. In the past it was common for universities in large cities to maintain and operate sports clubs for their students. Such clubs were usually called "Știința" (Science) and remains of a once very solid sports network for students can still be found in Bucharest (Știința București), Petroșani (Știința Petroșani), Bacău (Știința Bacău), Cluj (FC Universitatea Cluj and "U" Cluj – "U" stands for "University"), to name just a few places. Many of them, especially football teams, are now privately owned, but have retained their former names. Same goes for new clubs financed by various city councils, that operate under the same name "Știința" for the sake of "tradition". They have absolutely nothing to do with the old and sometimes 'glorious' students clubs, but the former communist regime, believing that it would rule the country for eternity, did not think of registering the name "Știința" as a trademark :)). As a result, a plethora of local and regional politicians, especially mayors of medium cities, abuse the well-known name to their advantage, creating or disbanding at will sports teams called "Știința", to a point that even for us Romanians it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to follow the history of one club or another from its inception to present days. There were even cases where the sports record of a now defunct club was bought by the owners of a new one. The most known example is SCM Râmnicu Vâlcea, which now holds CS Oltchim Râmnicu Vâlcea's record, which makes them legally one and the same team. As you can see, en.wiki immediately took note and merged the two pages, but we managed to keep them apart on ro.wiki, despite attempts by some occasional users, because we (or I, to be more precise :)) still believe that history cannot be bought.

Sorry for the long post, but long story short: these are two different clubs. Most likely, the University of Bacău retained the sports record of the old "Știința", so the city council was not able to grab it and claim that the new club is the successor to the old one.

In any case, good luck with your article and thank you very much for your interest in Romanian sports! --Nenea hartia (discuție) 5 februarie 2022 22:41 (EET)

@Nenea hartia: Thanks alot for your quick help! Understanding the context is often difficult for an outsider, now it feels much clearer! And I notice the different symbols used for the different clubs, a book etc. for the university club and a castle etc. for the CSM club. I assume the University club is still active, right? (at least frvolai uses their symbol for the volleyball club). I am still somewhat confused about the men's handball club. In that case the team that is currently good is CSM, but do you know if they the ones that came second in 2012-2014? It is claimed by the university club on their (no longer active, but archived) web site. Gunnar Larsson (discuție) 6 februarie 2022 00:10 (EET)

@Gunnar Larsson: I received a detailed and clarifying email from @Bogdan.be: on this subject. Among other things he provided me with two links proving that, at the time when the new women's team signed two Ukrainian players for the upcoming 2011/2012 season, the old students' team Știința was playing in the second league. And another link provided by Bogdan clearly reads that: "Interesting is, that there were discussions for a merger between the two women's handball teams from Bacău, Știința and CSM, but this proved to be impossible due to legal-budgetary reasons".

Then I searched the website of Bacău city council. I found the decision dated December 2010 "on approving the establishment of the 'Clubul Sportiv Municipal Bacău 2010' (Bacău Municipal Sports Club 2010), under the authority of the local council of Bacău". It says: "at the date of approval of this Regulation, the sports sections of CSM Bacău 2010 are the following: athletics, boxing, football, handball, swimming, tennis". So any press article or reference to a team called "Știința" prior to December 28, 2010, is a reference to the old students' team and any claim of the (new) municipal club to a sports record or match result prior to that date is either incorrect or an outright lie. True, it's much more difficult to distinguish between the two after December 28, 2010, because at some point in time (in January 2014, according to this link) the new club CSM Bacău 2010 was renamed 'Clubul Sportiv Știința Municipal Bacău 2010'. However, this didn't go very well, and through a new decision from August 2017, Bacău city council "approves the change of the name of this institution of local public interest, from Club Sportiv Știința Municipal Bacău to Club Sportiv Municipal Bacău" (Art.1 on page 3 of the pdf file. Sorry, the documents are scanned and have no OCR). But the most interesting is the reason for the name change. In a letter attached to the city council's decision (you can find it on page 7 of the pdf file), the (new) municipal club Club Sportiv Știința Municipal Bacău asked the city council to "approve the change of club's name from 'Club Sportiv Știința Municipal Bacău' to 'Club Sportiv Municipal Bacău' in order to eliminate the countless confusions created by the word 'Știința' ". And to avoid a lawsuit, a cynic might say :)).

I'm sorry I can't clearly answer your direct question, because I don't follow what is happening in the current Romanian men's handball, but please let me quote from the email I received from Bogdan: "By their name I suspect that Știința Municipal Dedeman Bacău, the men's handball team, was an association or other "mixture" between CS Știința Bacău [students' club], the municipality of Bacău and Dedeman, and has nothing to do with today's CSM Bacău team". Therefore this redirect is incorrect. Unfortunately, there are many users that, under the influence of poorly written and ill-informed media articles, create or break wiki links, incorrectly edit existing articles or write new ones, and it's very difficult to keep track of them or fix what they unintentionally broke.

I really hope that at least part of what I wrote will help you with your article and I'm sorry that I can't provide you with more details... --Nenea hartia (discuție) 6 februarie 2022 13:26 (EET)